[Paul V]

I was wondering what everyone does to present their songs? 

Do you play all instruments, some or none? 

The Logic drummer is my friend as I can't play drums. I do however spend some time tweaking parameters to help the track flow.  I always play bass, and keys/piano and often guitar.  I'm an acoustic guitarist and am quite comfortable playing lead or rhythm.  I have a fender Telecaster and enjoy plaing that (I've got tro say that I favour acoustic guitar). However, I will use some KONTAKT guitars that I play using a keyboard because I couldn't hope to achieve the clarity of recording of KONTAKT instruments.  Native Instruments use the best microphones and studio environment.  I don't often, play anything that I couldn't play on a real guitar. I've honed my writing over more than 40 years and have been recording as a home studio enthusiast for almost twenty years after being a live musician for equally as many years (though I no longer do this).  Having said that, I've rehearsed a set of twenty songs as I intend to play open mic sessions soon.

It would be interesting to hear what everyone else does to produce their recordings.

Paul

[Nick Ryder]

Hi @Paul V

Great question and I always find it fascinating to hear how others work, so I really hope this thread takes off.

I tired to use Logic drummer myself, but to me it always sounded flat and robotic. I could never get the hand of it but you seem to do way better than I ever did.

I'm extremely lucky in that one of my close friends is a really good drummer, and he has his own studio, so for the last year or so, he records live drums for me and in return, I contribute guitars, piano's strings and backing vocals to the projects he is working on.

I have a variety of guitars, electric and acoustic, and I use Amplitube amp simulator as I find it far better than micing up a real amp.

When I record acoustic guitar, these days I tend to use 2 microphones. I have a small stick condensor which I close mic pointing at the 12th fret, and then a SM57 Beta which I place 2ft away and point to the back of the guitar. When blending the 2, it seems to cover all the frequencies. Also, when playing rhythm, I do not use a pick as it sounds too percussive.

Whilst I am not that good at any instrument, I do prefer to play everything myself. It so much quicker than having to rely on other people who have their own busy lives.

Recording the bass guitar always takes me a long time as it does not come natural to me, so I spend hours working on the part.

I love layering up vocal harmonies. Its something I do find very easy and I adore hearing them in isolation. I am actually working on a song which is just vocals and nothing else. It will be my barbershop moment

You know that I am not very confident when it comes to mixing and mastering, so I always pass that over to others who know what they're doing. That said, I am getting better and my demo mixes are starting to sound something like. They're just not quite good enough to release though.

Thanks again for staring this thread and like I said, I hope others contrubute to it!!

[Paul V]

Thanks for getting on board with this thread @Nick Ryder.  If you're interested in how I assembled "Lullaby" which is currently on the forum,  the process was as follows:

I was involved in a speed writing exercise,  a song a day for a little over a week until a brand new suite of songs for an intended album 'Home Of Kings' was written. I sketched the acoustic rhythm out with a KONTAKT 12-string guitar for speed.  I don't own a 12-string and love KONTACT instruments' clarity. I write guitar and vocal or piano and vocal at the same time.  I then added the Logic drummer, tweaking what was played, making the drum track more or less busy and removing and adding aspects of the kit.  The Kit determined my basic bass playing, but I always watch what fits the song and what doesn't. I played the acoustic lead is on a Fender parlour guitar, and the electric guitar is through Amplitube which, as you say helps avoid recording via an amplifier.  The keys are quite basic and I used Native Instruments strings, played on my trusty keyboard.  I was way too lazy to sing a backing vocal!  There aren't any loops in the recording.  Whilst I played 12-string using KONTACT on my keyboard,  the ideas were all mine and there wasn't a loop in sight.  I've got to add, that I could easily play the rhythm guitar but not with the same clarity at the recording stage. The strongest elements for me, are the songwriting and acoustic lead including producing (fitting all of the nuts and bolts together).  Both are my strong points.  I love playing bass more than any other instrument but I wouldn't consider this a strength.  I usually find what I want to lay quickly as my brain is wired towards melody. Knowing about chord construction determines to an extent what I play although my bass playing is often quite basic.

It would be great to hear how others work.  @PaulAds, and @pompeyjazz, I'm assuming you assemble your songs pretty much as I do.  I think, that we have all benefitted from similar backgrounds and have played in numerous bands over time.  It helps tremendously when deciding what you should and shouldn't do.

Please share your processes here.

Paul

[Paul V]

@Maya Clars, @rightly, @moraamarolaloba @Elvis Nash, and as many contributors as possible, please share your working processes.

Paul

[Paul V]

Well, it's either a boring post or everyone's a little precious about their secrets!

[PaulAds]

I'm a big fan of the Apple "drummer" function...whether in GarageBand or Logic Pro...it's something I've found to be amazing over the years. I've used a few midi packs from Loop Loft and elsewhere which has sometimes given even better results, but for everyday drum tracks, it's excellent. I do, however always edit the patterns it creates and tailor them to how I want the drums to be, rather than sticking with what they give me. Drums are SO important...as much as anything else, I'd say...with the possible exception of the lead vocal.

I've recently really enjoyed playing tambourine too...that can help give a great "human" feel to songs. I used to always use a midi track of tambourine... usually to coincide with snare hits...but it's more fun playing them yourself, I reckon!

I love playing bass...but I don't do it as often as I'd like theses days. Such a lot of my songs have been helped massively by a really good bassline.

For guitars, I'm often using my Rickenbackers...though they have a bit of a reputation for wandering out of tune quite easily. For that reason, I often just use my Mexican Fender Telecaster for guitar parts...I only use the stock sounds in GB and Logic Pro...I've always been a big fan of the "old school punk" preset...and use it on nearly every guitar track.

Acoustic guitar often gets an airing too...I've always liked to whack a rhythm part on songs, sometimes when they don't really need one...but it's become a habit of mine.

The thing that gets me down (still) is doing vocals. I wish I could sing better...but that's old news that I won't moan about again here.

I don't listen closely enough to get too wound up about mixing and mastering. I don't think my stuff needs much more than pretty simple balancing of the main sounds...and the mastering presets in Logic Pro sound fine to me. I used to use Thomas Mundt's excellent "loudmax" plugin on every song...but haven't quite been so bothered about it lately.

I have a whole host of top quality plugins, but last time I did a clean install of Mac OSX, I didn't bother installing any of them...and just use the ones that come with Logic Pro.

I'm a player first and foremost...and all the knob-twiddling fiddly stuff tends to sap my enthusiasm.

Great thread!

[Elvis Nash]

I play guitar for melodies,  but every song I do is produced in Nashville . or 90% of them , Some I produce myself with session players. Lately I use real drummers, I have no goals to learn PRO -Tools... or jumping on the AI band-wagon on songs. which seem to be all the rave right now.  I guess a pro set-up would cost 10k and up . I am laying hardwood in a studio next month . He must have 50k sunk into it , or more . I imagine you can go hog-wild with buying recording gadgets. Billie Eilish on Lettermen show , She does 80 takes on vocals. Each verse or chorus line is a separate take, Then ties them all in.

[Nick Ryder]

In regards to the Logic drummer, do you guys convert it to a MIDI track and then tweak it?

[PaulAds]

yeah...that's right 

[Paul V]

@Nick Ryder, it's played as a software instrument within logic. As it plays, you can manipulate kick drum, snare, toms cymbals, hi-hats tambourine to be as busy as you require the track to be. I line up multiple bars and tweak each one separately to encompass, intro, verse, chorus, M8 etc. then I eq and add reverb accordingly.

Paul

[Nick Ryder]

Thanks, both Paul's. I might give it a go and see what it sounds like.

How do you guys record bass out of interest?

As I mentioned before, as I'm not a bass player, I've had two develop a way of doing it so that it sounds like I am.....

So basically, I record it as 2 separate tracks and work on one section at a time until I'm happy, then for the next section, record on the next track.

Once completely happy, I bounce in place the 2 tracks together so it's one performance.

I do have a bass amp too, so sometimes I use a DI box to record DI and then mic up the amp as well. That can give great results, especially if there's new strings on the bass!!

[PaulAds]

I always feel I have to quantise the first beats of the bar of drummer regions after it’s been converted to MIDI as the timing is always loose and I can’t bear it! I do think
it can be a little slack…just like the real thing, I’m afraid 😂

I don’t do anything fancy with the bass…I just DI it and uses preset on it “hi-fi DI” usually gets the nod, I think…although I like the “modern stack” preset too…off the top
of my head.

I usually play it on one track until I slip up…as I often do…and then duplicate that and record on the second track, picking it up a few bars before the error…and then comp it into a single track. I find it’s pretty easy to find good edit points on a bass track.

[Paul V]

@Nick Ryder, I rarely record bass in one go, simply because I write parts for each section of a song. I play the intro and verse then pull it in to time using flex time. I then write another section e.g bridge or chorus and do the same; quantising audio using flex time. Before you know it, I have a full bass track which is perfectly in time. That way I never need to use more than one track. I could learn the whole track but why bother? I'll quickly forget it and move onto the next song. It's only when we rehearse a collection of songs on a regular basis that we remember what we've done.

It"s just like recording any audio track. I eq it without any other effect other than compression.
Paul

[Paul V]

I'm with @PaulAds, you'd have to rehearse over and over to get the track in time the way that modern music demands. Quantise the bass track then forget all about it.

Paul

[Paul V]

I haven't been recording for a month or two but this discussion encourages me to write and produce again. I'm off from work on Thursday and Friday so might do that.

Paul