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Downtown Cowboys -- Looking for feedback.

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hardtwistmusic

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« on: April 05, 2014, 04:22:48 AM »
My Dad really WAS a "real life cowboy."  I was thinking of him and the comments from an internet friend named Garrett Walker from Reverbnation.  Garrett had just watched the Country Music Awards on television.  He commented that they "had a little bit of everything on that show. . . Well... everything BUT country music," Garrett said.  Garrett is also a "real life Cowboy."    

I wrote this lyric in just about thirty minutes.  An acquaintance named Paul Newett set the music to this (the only true fifty/fifty collaboration I have with Paul really) and he actually admitted to being excited about the song.  That was rare.  Several people have told me it's my best song.  That's all a matter of taste, of course, but I'd like to hear your opinions.  

I'll apologize in advance.  The recording starts over and replays the beginning for a few bars.  I was apparently just sloppy.  

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 Downtown Cowboys by HardTwistMusic

VERSE ONE:
Ride em cowboy throw that rope Yippee Yi Yo Ki Yay
My Daddy was a real life cowboy,  
He roped and rode and spit.
He had no use for dime store cowboys
who had never stepped in er... uh... it.
If Daddy had lived to see what's passin for Cowboys now....
Pony Tails, spikey hair, styling jell, he'd have a cow.
Well, that ain't how the cowboy's done it back in Daddy's day.
It's a different brand of cowboy you'd have to say.

PRE-CHORUS:  
Downtown cowboys don't get dirty when they're throwin the bull around.
And working cowboys don't need to wear a costume into town.

CHORUS:  
Well, they just don't make cowboys
like they used to that's for shore. Back in Daddy's day not so long ago before.
And there ain't no room for country boys in country anymore.
Downtown Cowboys took country music out for a little ole stroll.... And when they brought it back it sounded like watered down rock and roll....
like watered down rock and roll...
like watered down rock and roll.


VERSE TWO:  
Yippee Yi Yo... Yippe Yi Yo... Yippee Yi Yo Ki Yay
So when did all of these cowboys up and move into New York City?
And downtown Houston, Dallas and L.A.?
And what do Atlanta and Memphis need all of those cowboys for??
There ain't no cows for the boys to herd along the Jersey Shore.
Yippee Yi Yo... Yippe Yi Yo... Yippee Yi Yo Ki Yay

VERSE THREE:  
And ain't it somehow backwards to wear a tie when you go into work.
Then dress up like a cowboy to go into town.
Well, you know it's really nothing to me and I'm not tryin to be a jerk.
But it's kind of an insult to real life cowboys
when downtown, dimestore, midnight cowboys throw that bull around.

CHORUS:  
Well, they just don't make cowboys
like they used to that's for shore. Back in Daddy's day not so long ago before.
And there ain't no room for country boys in country anymore.
Downtown Cowboys took country music out for a little ole stroll.... And when they brought it back it sounded like watered down rock and roll....
like watered down rock and roll...
like watered down rock and roll.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 04:56:16 AM by hardtwistmusic »
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Verlon Gates  -  60 plus years old.

mihkay

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« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2014, 11:20:11 PM »
Now firstly. I'm not a lyrics guy.

But these lyrics work.  ;D

I listened to this song a few days ago but I was on my mobile and this is the first chance I've had to comment.

I'm not convinced that the tune and the lyrics really sit together but it still caught my ear. It's had my interest ever since. The longing for the working cowboy in the lyrics juxtaposed with the 80's video game soundtrack.
Now please don't take that as a dislike. The tune was great, just the sounds were retro.

Personally I would go a more conventional route with those lyrics.

1. Put a country shuffle behind it and go, Nashville or

my preferred option

2. Go more folk, protest. Dylan, Steve Earle?

After all the lyrics are saying, "you're not real", "you're pretending", "you're a fake" I think the music should be more angry, disappointed, accusing?

Only my opinion, which I'll back up with a demo if you want?  ;) ;D

cheers

Mihkay



I have no authority or standing here, only opinions. :-)

Paulski

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« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2014, 02:09:19 AM »
I'm gonna 1+ what mihkay says - that music sounds like it needs a "Video killed the radio star" lyric and those lyrics sound like they need a Folsom Prison backing track. Also the melody line could be made more interesting IMO - starting just about every line on the 5th kind of gets repetitive. Don't get me wrong please - given a good melody and music this could shine as one of the best I've heard of yours. Esp liked the "watered down" line - so true!
Paul

hardtwistmusic

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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2014, 03:34:02 AM »
Now firstly. I'm not a lyrics guy.

But these lyrics work.  ;D

I listened to this song a few days ago but I was on my mobile and this is the first chance I've had to comment.

I'm not convinced that the tune and the lyrics really sit together but it still caught my ear. It's had my interest ever since. The longing for the working cowboy in the lyrics juxtaposed with the 80's video game soundtrack.
Now please don't take that as a dislike. The tune was great, just the sounds were retro.

Personally I would go a more conventional route with those lyrics.

1. Put a country shuffle behind it and go, Nashville or

my preferred option

2. Go more folk, protest. Dylan, Steve Earle?

After all the lyrics are saying, "you're not real", "you're pretending", "you're a fake" I think the music should be more angry, disappointed, accusing?

Only my opinion, which I'll back up with a demo if you want?  ;) ;D

cheers

Mihkay


Hi Mihkay.... I'd absolutely LOVE to hear an alternate demo to this.  This music isn't mine... it's a collaboration in which someone added the music to my lyric, then I added the vocal melody and vocal. 

I really liked the music.... and some of it was lost when we had to cut the fiddle out of it.  But at the same time, it (the music) seemed very generic and derivative to me... so I've always wondered what this might sound like with a different sound. 

I don't need permission from the other party to tinker with the music.   But the song will always remain partly his due to the fact that he was integral to the vocal treatment.  If you're okay with all that, have at the demo. 

And don't feel constrained to follow my vocal treatment either.  If you can hear something better to do with it... go for it. 
www.reverbnation.com/hardtwistmusicsongwriter

Verlon Gates  -  60 plus years old.

hardtwistmusic

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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2014, 03:36:27 AM »
I'm gonna 1+ what mihkay says - that music sounds like it needs a "Video killed the radio star" lyric and those lyrics sound like they need a Folsom Prison backing track. Also the melody line could be made more interesting IMO - starting just about every line on the 5th kind of gets repetitive. Don't get me wrong please - given a good melody and music this could shine as one of the best I've heard of yours. Esp liked the "watered down" line - so true!
Paul

Paul... I need to express how much I've come to appreciate you on this forum.  You're always trying to help (not just me, but everyone) and you always give sincere feedback.  Your opinion means a lot to me  and (if I read other people well) others also. 

You are a big part of what makes this forum so useful and dynamic.
www.reverbnation.com/hardtwistmusicsongwriter

Verlon Gates  -  60 plus years old.

hardtwistmusic

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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2014, 03:44:18 AM »

Also the melody line could be made more interesting IMO - starting just about every line on the 5th kind of gets repetitive.
Paul

Paul.... I'm sometimes painfully ignorant of music terminology.  I didn't understand what "starting just about every line on the 5th" means.  Please elaborate.... and thanks in advance for being patient with me for not knowing.
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Verlon Gates  -  60 plus years old.

Paulski

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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2014, 05:02:33 PM »
Quote
Paul... I need to express how much I've come to appreciate you on this forum.  You're always trying to help (not just me, but everyone) and you always give sincere feedback.  Your opinion means a lot to me  and (if I read other people well) others also. 

You are a big part of what makes this forum so useful and dynamic.
Appreciate that, Verlon. Although I'm not as diplomatic as I could be at times :-[

Paulski

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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2014, 05:07:37 PM »
Quote
Paul.... I'm sometimes painfully ignorant of music terminology.  I didn't understand what "starting just about every line on the 5th" means.  Please elaborate.... and thanks in advance for being patient with me for not knowing.
Hi Verlon
Sorry for the delay.
I didn't check out the key this was in, but let's say it is "G".
For the key of G the 5th would be a "D" (or the fifth note of the scale in the key of G).
Not sure if this is a good explanation .. let me know if not!
cheers
Paul

mihkay

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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2014, 05:29:09 PM »
Alternative version.  :o ???

I think I'd been drinking when I volunteered that idea!  ;D

But I had time to think and I reckon I have the spark of an idea that might work. I'll need to do a bit of research as being a Scot living in England, the closest I've gotten to the Prairie was one Xmas in Saskatoon. But as "Cowboy" songs were originally based on Northern European folk songs I may OK.

I'll keep you posted as I get something together.

Martin
I have no authority or standing here, only opinions. :-)

hardtwistmusic

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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2014, 07:31:22 AM »
Quote
Paul.... I'm sometimes painfully ignorant of music terminology.  I didn't understand what "starting just about every line on the 5th" means.  Please elaborate.... and thanks in advance for being patient with me for not knowing.
Hi Verlon
Sorry for the delay.
I didn't check out the key this was in, but let's say it is "G".
For the key of G the 5th would be a "D" (or the fifth note of the scale in the key of G).
Not sure if this is a good explanation .. let me know if not!
cheers
Paul

Ahhhhhh.... I had this explained to me as "Western Notation."  A standard pattern (which the ears of western audiences are trained to listen to) expects to begin with the "first" chord...... then, a sequence of other chords, THEN the penultimate chord is the "fifth", and then back to the "first." 

I understand what you were saying now.  That pattern allows music to "resolve."   

Thanks for your note and your explanation.  BTW.... I didn't write the music.  Didn't even modify it (which is unusual for me).   I'd have never caught the fact that he (Paul Newett is his name) had started the measures on the fifth.  It's an interesting concept, and now that you have mentioned it, it's clear that the music never "resolves," just drones on.   

In this case, that didn't bother me, and still doesn't.  But I have learned something and I thank you. 
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hardtwistmusic

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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2014, 07:33:10 AM »
Alternative version.  :o ???

I think I'd been drinking when I volunteered that idea!  ;D

But I had time to think and I reckon I have the spark of an idea that might work. I'll need to do a bit of research as being a Scot living in England, the closest I've gotten to the Prairie was one Xmas in Saskatoon. But as "Cowboy" songs were originally based on Northern European folk songs I may OK.

I'll keep you posted as I get something together.

Martin

Anything you come up with will be appreciated.  I'm looking forward to it. 
www.reverbnation.com/hardtwistmusicsongwriter

Verlon Gates  -  60 plus years old.

onemanband

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« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2014, 08:12:45 AM »
Hey verlon,

   These are really strong lyrics

"And ain't it somehow backwards to wear a tie when you go into work.
Then dress up like a cowboy to go into town."

That lkine inparticular had me smiling, I think i have to agree that the music isn't quite fitting for this song - although I the idea that you are complaing about all these psuedo-cowboys and then the music doesn't really have a country feel to it either - kind of works in a weird way.

Like I said I thik the story here is top draw and I can see you and Mihkay teaming up to really make something special here.

Good luck!!

mickeytwonames

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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2014, 11:23:21 PM »
Love the lyric
Downtown Cowboys took country music out for a little ole stroll.... And when they brought it back it sounded like watered down rock and roll....
like watered down rock and roll...
like watered down rock and roll.
Mickeytwonames
Practice like you live forever.
Play like you die tonight,

diademgrove

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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2014, 07:16:03 AM »
Hi Verlon,

great song and I like the music. I don't mind that it doesn't sound like a country song, I think that's part of the point of the song. Real cowboys are real people not caricatures. Some cowboys like country music others may not.

The vocal hit the spot as well. Played it twice its very catchy. The song will be going around my head all morning, at least until work seeps in.

I'd have liked a more thought ending though, it just stopped. The really song gives no reason for the stop. A fade out on yippee yi yo etc would have been nice.

A great way to spend 10 minutes.

Keith


jmacdon

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« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2014, 11:09:18 PM »
Hi HTM - let's be brief here.  You say that you had no input or control over the music!  WTF?  As a songwriter then you must have control over the whole production - end of! These are your lyrics and you must treasure them!  I would hate someone to write inappropriate music to my lyrics and I do get my ass kicked for writing inappropriate melodies to other peoples lyrics !

This song needs serious melody and insturmentation to really lift the lyrics.   I listen to this and think of Frogger - remember the 1980's Atari game........ Yes, it's that dated  :-\ :-\ :-\

I might try and write a melody myself....... haha....

PS - the one part of the song I loved was the key change at Yippee Yi Yah...... excellent  ;D ;D

John.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 11:16:34 PM by jmacdon »